ADNAN OKTAR: In the era of Mawlana Rumi, 2 million Muslims were martyred. You can find this information in the history books. Shams was a person who personally took part in the massacres and committed murders himself. This is also written in the history books.

GULSAH GUCYETMEZ: You have mentioned before that Rumi would use the money granted to him by Hulagu.

ADNAN OKTAR: Indeed. Massacres of incomprehensible proportions were carried out that resulted in the looting of the valuables of Muslims such as gold and silver. The butchers of Hulagu would martyr women and loot their bodies for valuable jewelry by cutting their arms or their fingers to be able to retrieve any rings or necklaces on their bodies. Then they would take the jewelry and bring it to Rumi. According to the history books, Hulagu put Rumi on a payroll. There might have existed two different persons named Rumi in history; the one we are familiar with is a horrible person. The real Rumi might be a different person. Rivers flew crimson with human blood. For example, there is a well-known river in Damascus named Barada, which flew red with blood. And Rumi composed poems, songs about the River Barada that ran crimson for days, weeks. Look, the poems written under Rumi's name have a Masonic, cryptic tone. He wrote a poem named the River Barada after the said river thatrun red with blood. "When you do your gestures from your soul inside a river, you will feel the happiness flow through you." Look, he writes, "when you do your gestures from your soul inside a river, you will feel the happiness flow through you" with reference to the River Barada that ran red with blood. "But if they come from somewhere else, this feeling will pass. Don't let others guide you." He incites people against the state. "They might be blind, or worse still as they might be vultures." What kind of person was Hulagu, the person whose side you would not leave, the person who massacred two million Muslims? Preach these words to that man. Rumi wrote these lines with reference to the Seljuks. "Hold fast to the rope of God." What is the rope of God? The Quran. What is the rope of God according to Rumi? Masnavi. "What is it then? It is to cast your will aside. People suffer imprisonment out of obstinacy. Tied are the wings of the bird that is confined, and sizzles the fish on a frying-pan. These are a few examples of the ciphered sentences the followers of Rumi constantly use among themselves. "The anger of the police shines in his stubbornness, you saw the obvious sentence the judge passed, now you are seeing the concealed one. If you can shed yourself of your selfishness, you will witness the tyranny of the self. We were born and live in the dark waters inside a well." These lines in the poem are all special code words. "How can we know what is a field on which the beams of sunlight shines? Do not insist on going to the place that you think y