John and Naomi discuss their journey in helping people recover from controlling religious environments. Naomi shares how her organization, BeEmboldened, has expanded mentoring services and created trauma-informed spaces where survivors can rebuild trust in community. They reflect on the challenges of helping people process complex emotions like grief, fear, and social anxiety after leaving spiritually manipulative groups. Both agree that support needs to be relational and gentle, not agenda-driven or forced, especially for those still triggered by certain religious phrases or environments.

They go on to unpack some of their biggest frustrations with how mainstream religious communities respond to survivors. Naomi criticizes the misuse of scripture and common catchphrases like “under proper authority,” while John warns against the idea of “accidental demons” and spiritual paranoia. Together, they emphasize the importance of real psychological support, spiritual patience, and trauma-informed education for churches that want to help. They conclude with reflections on empathy, compassion, and the long-term work of restoration—along with an invitation to Naomi’s upcoming in-person event for those seeking safe connection.

BeEmboldened: https://www.beemboldened.com/
Living Out Freedom Conference: https://www.beemboldened.com/lof

00:00 Introduction
00:32 Reconnecting with Naomi Wright
01:52 Early Podcast Days & Studio Setups
03:03 The Unexpected Longevity of the Project
03:40 Linking Branhamism to Other Movements
04:12 Be Emboldened: Growth and Services
05:54 Upcoming 2025 Trauma-Informed Conference
07:59 Creating Safe Spaces for Survivors
09:24 Rebuilding Trust After Spiritual Abuse
10:27 The Pressure to “Get Back in Church”
11:42 Pet Peeve: The “Proper Authority” Doctrine
13:14 Pet Peeve: “In the World, Not of It” Misuse
14:39 Joy and Guilt in Newfound Freedoms
15:58 Family Fear and the Cult Recovery Journey
17:31 Letting People Heal on Their Own Timeline
18:52 Teenage Doubts and Contradictions
20:13 Accidental Demons & Colossians 2
22:01 Legalism in Mainstream Churches
23:28 Biblical Mandate to Publicly Call Out Abuse
24:53 Pet Peeve: “You’re Causing Division” Accusation
26:11 Reading 1 Timothy 5:17–21 and Explaining Witnesses
28:07 The Role of Social Media in Speaking Out
28:31 Closing Thoughts on Authority and Calling Abuse Out
29:03 Daily Resistance and Helping Those Who Resist Help
30:37 Breaking Through Cult Programming
31:46 Pet Peeve: Demonization of Mental Health Support
33:21 The Church’s Failure to Understand Cult Trauma
34:39 Be Emboldened’s Educational Outreach to Churches
36:22 Bible-Thumping vs. Trauma-Informed Healing
37:09 Churches That Unwittingly Push Survivors Away
38:02 Working With Families Who Want to Help
39:48 Helping Without Platitudes
40:12 Reaching Cult Members in Neighborhoods
41:35 Why Debate Reawakens the Cult Identity
42:36 Conferences as a Tool for Learning and Connection
43:01 The Need for Relational, Not Transactio